Abdul Hakim al-Shishani: A lot of people in the FSB are unhappy with Kadyrov and waiting for Putin to leave

Abdul Hakim al-Shishani's name is known far beyond Chechnya. He participated in the Russian-Chechen war and commanded the Central Front of the Ichkerian army. After being forced to emigrate, he continued his mission by heading a Chechen group in Syria. Now Abdul-Hakim is the Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria, and he is participating in the Russia-Ukraine war on the side of Ukraine.

In an interview with RBC-Ukraine, he shares his thoughts on how the wars in Chechnya, Syria, and Ukraine are interconnected. “Chechnya, Georgia, Syria, Ukraine - where are they not involved? They killed in Afghanistan, they are in Libya, they are in Africa,” the military man says, pointing to Russia's aggressive policy.

Abdul-Hakim pays special attention to the resilience of the Ukrainian people: “To say that Ukraine will not survive or will not win is ridiculous to me.” He is confident that Ukraine's struggle for its freedom is only part of a larger process that could eventually change the entire geopolitical map of the region.

Read below the main takeaways, or watch the full interview on RBC-Ukraine's YouTube channel.

On military experience in the Russia-Ukraine war

It is not how I got here that matters, but the fact that I am here and fighting against a common enemy. I participated in operations in Bakhmut, Toretsk, Kharkiv, and even in the Belgorod region. It is not customary for us to brag about our achievements.

The spirit of Ukrainian soldiers is impressive. Their level of training is increasing every year, and their resilience remains unchanged. For three years now, we have seen the resilience and spirit of the Ukrainian people.

Why do the Russians manage to advance on the frontline?

Their tactics have been unchanged since World War II - “meat assaults”, when they throw a huge number of soldiers without responsibility and training. As long as Russia has 140 million people, they will act this way. But I am confident that Ukraine will regain its territories. If the international community continues to support it, it is only a matter of time.

Crimea or Donbas? I don't see any difference. If we get everything we need, airplanes, long-range systems, everything we need, all the territories will be returned - Crimea, Donbas, Kherson. For Ukraine, this will end the war, but for us (Chechens - ed.) it will not until we get our territories back.

What is the difference between the war in Ukraine and the wars in Chechnya and Syria?

In Chechnya, it was a guerrilla war, and in Syria, it was sabotage operations. Ukraine is facing a full-scale war. The differences are also in the political aspect: Ukraine has international support, which was not the case in Chechnya in the 1990s. It gives Ukraine a huge advantage.

Why did Putin manage to win in Chechnya?

They learned their lessons from the First Chechen War: they trained collaborators like Kadyrov's men, used torture, intimidation, and kidnapping of their fighters' relatives. Many were forced to go over to their side, causing great damage to our resistance. There is no such scenario in Ukraine.

On the war in Syria and its impact on Russia's position

Russia, Iran, and Hezbollah supported the Assad regime, which left the opposition divided and weakened. However, the war in Ukraine has hit Russia's resources hard, and today the opposition in Syria is acting as a united front, which has helped to change the balance of power in the Middle East. Russia's position there has been significantly weakened. In geopolitical terms, the loss of the Middle East hits Russia's credibility and image. On top of that, it is a blow to Iran - it has been beheaded.

As for Syria, with the help of allies and neighbors, everything will work out. We can say that Türkiye has united groups that had previously been in conflict with each other, and now they will be helped economically and militarily. Syrians will return home. The ones I know are not capricious, they are very simple. They will return because they don't need much. And they will rebuild the country if there are investments.

On the cruelty and war crimes of the Russians

We saw the atrocities that Russians are committing in Ukraine in Chechnya: killing civilians, bombing schools and hospitals, hundreds of mass graves where people were killed and buried. Back then there were simply no phones, no media, we were in isolation. Therefore, much was not recorded. But I believe that one-third of the million people in Chechnya were killed.

History shows that it is in their blood. They can't live without blood, without victims, without killing. They like it, you can see it. It is in their nature. They cannot do otherwise. The collapse of Russia can only stop that. If Russia collapses, this will stop. If not, we will see the same scenarios. Chechnya, Georgia, Syria, Ukraine. Where are they not involved? Afghanistan, Libya, Africa. Wherever they are, there are crimes, murders, violence.

Future of Chechnya and the Caucasus after Russia's collapse

History shows that Russia's disintegration may begin in the Caucasus. Today, Kadyrov himself says that he needs to prepare for war, prepare weapons. He realizes that if the war in Ukraine ends or the conflict is frozen, all the negativity and anger of people will turn against him. He is already taking steps to protect himself. For example, he is granting amnesty to those who have been in Syria and telling their relatives that they can return home, that there are no claims against them. This is a clear signal: Kadyrov realizes that changes are coming and is trying to ease the pressure. But it's obvious that all this negativity will hit him sooner or later. Chechens are tired of repression, torture, and murder. The people are ready to fight for freedom. If Russia collapses, the support of the international community will help Ichkeria and other regions gain independence.

On the role of Kadyrov and his troops in the Russia-Ukraine war

Kadyrov's men are Putin's personal guards, helping him to control Chechnya. They are linked by common crimes: the murders of political opponents, human rights activists, and journalists. Putin has given Kadyrov complete carte blanche in Russia, which is why he maintains his power.

As long as there is Putin, there is Kadyrov. But as soon as Putin is gone, Kadyrov will be gone too. He won't be able to come to an agreement with the new leader, especially if it is an FSB protege. A lot of people in the FSB are unhappy with Kadyrov and are waiting for Putin to leave to resolve this issue.

On the guerrilla movement and public sentiment in the North Caucasus

The guerrilla movement has always existed, and we are trying to make it more organized and large-scale. People are tired of repression and are ready for anything. The war in Ukraine has only increased the tension: those who disagree with Kadyrov's regime are sent to the front, where they die. Kadyrov is using this as a way to get rid of those who disagree.

90% of Chechens do not want this war, they do not need it. If Kadyrov and his family really believed in their “holy war,” they would go to the front themselves. But they are not there. They are sitting in Kursk, Belgorod region. They were near Kyiv, but could not do anything at all. They are a propaganda tool, not a real force.

On the latest drone attacks in Chechnya and the reaction of ordinary Chechens to them

This has a great impact on Kadyrov's authority. The people of Chechnya rejoice at every strike on regime targets. Kadyrov and his cronies are mocking their own people: killing, torturing, and taking away property. People do not see them as their defenders, they see them as enemies.

But air strikes alone will not overthrow Kadyrov. In any case, we will have to return to Chechnya. No one will give up this territory for nothing. If Russia collapses, the people of Chechnya themselves will overthrow Kadyrov. Without Russia's support, his regime will not last even two or three months. People are tired of repression and are ready to do anything to get rid of him.

Kadyrov has some illnesses, but I don't think he will die of them. If he is gone, Russia will find a replacement. Putin has many people like him, and he can always appoint a new protege.

On the level of training and morale of the Russian military fighting in Ukraine

There is no particular difference between what I saw before and now. They are now better trained, but there is one peculiarity: they seem to be drugged with something. They really walk like zombies. Yes, chemical stimulation was also used during the world wars, but now it is especially noticeable among Russians. They are exploding, killing each other. We didn't see this in Chechnya. There they were shooting themselves, but here something strange is happening. It is clear that this is a system. They are caught and sent to the front. Most of them are those who were simply mobilized at training grounds in two weeks and then thrown into battle.

On Russian influence in Georgia and the threat of a full-scale war in the country

Kadyrov's men are involved in suppressing protests in Georgia. We have information that there is a 90% probability that they are there. Russia will not give up Georgia for nothing. If they fail to fully control the territory, I think they may go to war. If the protesters rise, Russia will send tanks.

Has the world lost Georgia? Yes, if Georgians do not fight for their freedom and independence. I hope they will fight like the Ukrainians do and like we fought in Chechnya. Georgia has always been important for Chechens and the entire Caucasus. Their freedom is our hope as well.

On Ukraine's chances of winning

I can't answer this question unequivocally, because we had nothing in Chechnya: no ammunition, no rear, no equipment. We were always surrounded. We fought in such conditions that a comparison with the current situation in Ukraine is simply inappropriate.

In Chechnya, we fought and won despite all this. And Ukraine has the support of Europe and the whole world. To say that Ukraine will not survive or win is ridiculous to me. Yes, it will be difficult, but the main thing is to show resilience and keep fighting.

We cannot freeze the war, otherwise Russia will use it to its advantage. The support of the West, the resilience of Ukrainians, and their desire for freedom are the keys to victory.

On the future of the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria

We are very grateful to the Ukrainian people for recognizing our territory as occupied. I am confident that Ichkeria will be free, independent, and everything will be fine.

But this scenario is connected with the collapse of Russia. Without this, it will be very difficult for us to achieve independence. Ukraine's victory over Russia is the first step. After that, with the help of the international community, we will be able to create an independent state. Without political and military support, it will be difficult, as it was in the 90s. Back then, we had no international support. But we have taken into account the mistakes of the past. Now our politicians are doing everything to ensure that this support is there, and we hope for the help of the international community.

Of course, Dagestan, Ingushetia, Karachay-Cherkessia, Kabardino-Balkaria will all want to secede. If Russia starts to fall apart, these regions will definitely seize the chance. We hope that it will lead to the freedom of the entire Caucasus.